Radio Lab
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Forests on Forests
For much of history, tree canopies were pretty much completely ignored by science. It was as if researchers said collectively, "It's just going to be empty up there, and we've got our hands full studying the trees down here! So why bother?"
But then around the mid-1980s, a few ecologists around the world got curious and started making their way up into the treetops using any means necessary (ropes, cranes, hot air dirigibles) to document all they could find. It didn't take long for them to realize not only was the forest canopy not empty, it was absolutely filled to the brim with life. You've heard of treehouses? How about tree gardens?!
This week, we bring you a story we first released in 2022. We journey up into the sky and discover forests above the forest. We learn about the secret powers of these sky gardens from ecologist Korena Mafune, and we follow Nalini Nadkarni as she makes a ground-breaking discovery that changes how we understand what trees are capable of.
P.S. This episode is a layer cake of arboreal surprises (including the reappearance of a certain retired host.
LATERAL CUTS:
From Tree to Shining Tree (https://zpr.io/4cHtDdYTuNxT): The episode that started this journey, where we look down instead of up.EPISODE CREDITS:
Reported by - Annie McEwen
Produced by - Annie McEwenEPISODE CITATIONS:
Videos -
Inside the Fight to Save an Ancient Forest (and the Secrets it Holds) (https://zpr.io/XKipP2z4NFiM), by Michael Werner, Joe Hanson, and the PBS Overview team. We first learned about the magical world of the canopy from this beautiful video. It features Korena Mafune’s research up in the treetops, as well as the people who have dedicated their lives to saving what’s left of the old growth forests. We highly recommend checking it out!Signup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show.Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!
Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member ofThe Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.
Follow our show onInstagram,Twitter andFacebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailingradiolab@wnyc.org.
Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.Hi Radiolab listeners, we want to hear from you! Take this podcast survey and let us know how you feel about the show. It only takes about 20 minutes and your feedback will help us make our podcast better! There are no wrong answers, we want your honest takes. You can help out by taking the survey here (www.radiolab.org/survey).
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The Resistance of a Cow
There’s something rotten in the cows of Denmark. And Minnesota. And Wisconsin. And Idaho. What could cause a previously thriving herd of majestic dairy cattle to stop drinking water and start drinking … urine? A Danish farmer calls a special investigator, who takes one look at his farm and nopes the heck out of there, refusing to return, citing “bad energy” coming from something nearby … a big building covered in Viking runes.
It’s not magic. It’s an invisible force that’s far more common. And yet deeply mysterious.
This episode plunges producers Matt Kielty and Simon Adler knee-deep in a decades-old dairy farm controversy, rooted in a fundamental suspicion of the invisible streams of electrons that keep our world humming.
Special thanks to Dr. Liz Brock
EPISODE CREDITS:
Reported by - Matt Kielty and Simon Adler
with help from - Clara Grunnet and Rebecca Rand
Produced by - Matt Kielty
with help from - Maria Paz Gutierrez
Original music from - Jeremy Bloom and Matt Kielty
Sound design contributed by - Jeremy Bloom
Mixed by - Jeremy Bloom
Fact-checking by - Angely Mercado and Sophie Samiee
and Edited by - Pat WaltersEPISODE CITATIONS:
Books -
- The Great Energy Transition: America from 1876 to 1929 (https://zpr.io/3PStsDgidpj5), by David Nye
- Powering American Farms: The Overlooked Origins of Rural Electrification (https://zpr.io/GdQ4pMCy4DAV), by Richard Hirsch
- Beyond the Barn – Dodging Cow Patties for 50 Years by a Country Vet (https://zpr.io/S8qS9HLEQBJe), by Don Sanders a memoir about his long career.
Signup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show.Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!
Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member ofThe Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.
Follow our show onInstagram,Twitter andFacebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailingradiolab@wnyc.org.
Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.
Hi Radiolab listeners, we want to hear from you! Take this podcast survey and let us know how you feel about the show. It only takes about 20 minutes and your feedback will help us make our podcast better! There are no wrong answers, we want your honest takes. You can help out by taking the survey here (www.radiolab.org/survey).
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The Builders
In an episode first aired back in 2025 on our sister show, Terrestrials, we take you on a musical journey all about beavers. Few mammals have a bigger positive impact on the planet than the beaver. With its bright orange buck teeth, the creature is an expert engineer that brings life wherever it waddles and even fights fires. Our story begins in the Bronx river, once known as the “open sewer” of New York City. After some humans decide to clean it up, we meet one of the river’s residents - José the beaver. We learn about the US government parachuting beavers out of planes into the mountains. And finally head to California where we discover how one beaver family saved acres of land from burning.
Special thanks to author Ben Goldfarb, Christian Murphy from the Bronx River Alliance and Dr. Emily Fairfax.
Terrestrials was created by Lulu Miller with WNYC Studios. This episode was produced by Ana González and sound-designed by Mira Burt-Wintonick. Our team includes Alan Goffinski, Joe Plourde and Tanya Chawla. Fact checking was by Diane Kelly.
Our advisors for this show were Ana Luz Porzecanski, Nicole Depalma, Liza Demby and Tovah Barocas.
EPISODE CITATIONS:
Books -- Eager: The Surprising, Secret Life of Beavers and Why They Matter (https://zpr.io/4QLuhrSMfurk), by Ben Goldfarb
- Beaverland: How One Weird Rodent Made America (https://zpr.io/3BbaViJK8Hk3), by Leila Philip’s
Videos -
- Watch the US government drop beavers out of planes (https://zpr.io/y2JJPwwyr3Bp).
- Watch Leave It to Beavers (https://zpr.io/JVGZYmNCTy6h), a documentary about beavers restoring rivers and wetlands.
Articles -
- How reintroducing beavers can enhance ecological health(https://zpr.io/KNxz3MtKL9sV), by Madison Pobis, Stanford Report.
- Beaver Dams Help Wildfire-Ravaged Ecosystems Recover Long after Flames Subside (https://zpr.io/kAnjEUPvPUeJ), by Isobel Sandcomb, Scientific American
HEY GROWN-UPS!
Love the show? Leave us a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ rating and review on your podcast app—it helps curious listeners find us!
We want to hear from you!Share your thoughts about Terrestrials with us.
Subscribe to our weekly newsletter for bite-sized essays, activities, and ways to connect with the show.
Follow us onYouTube,Instagram, andTikTok for behind-the-scenes extras and more.
Listen to original music from Terrestrials onSpotify,Apple Music, or ourmusic page.Got a badgering question for the team? Email us at terrestrialspodcast@wnyc.org or submit a voice memo with your name, age, and your question usingthis form!
Terrestrials is made possible in part by listeners like you.Support the show by joining Radiolab’s membership program, The Lab—and we’ll send you a special thank-you gift from our team!
Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.Hi Radiolab listeners, we want to hear from you! Take this podcast survey and let us know how you feel about the show. It only takes about 20 minutes and your feedback will help us make our podcast better! There are no wrong answers, we want your honest takes. You can help out by taking the survey here (www.radiolab.org/survey).
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Life in a Barrel
This week, in an episode we first aired in 2022, we flip the Disney story of life on its head thanks to a barrel of seawater, a 1970s era computer, and underwater geysers. It’s the chaos of life.
Latif, Lulu, and our Senior Producer Matt Kielty were all sitting on their own little stories until they got thrown into the studio, and had their cherished beliefs about the shape of life put on a collision course. From an accidental study of sea creatures, to the ambitions of Stephen J Gould, to an undercooked theory that captured the world’s imagination, we undo the seeming order of the living world and try to make some music out of the wreckage. (Bonus: Learn how Francis Crick really thought life got started on this planet).
EPISODE CREDITS:
Reported by - Latif Nasser, Matt Kielty, Heather Radke, Lulu Miller and Candice Wang
Produced by - Matt Kielty and Simon Adler
with help from - Arianne Wack
Original music and sound design contributed by - Matt Kilety, Simon Adler, Alan Goffinski, and Jeremy BloomEPISODE CITATIONS:
Articles -
- Chaos in a long-term experiment with a plankton community(https://zpr.io/j6sYXKfDzPCG), by Benincà, E., Huisman, J., Heerkloss, R. et al. Nature
- Chaos theory discloses triggers and drivers of plankton dynamics in stable environment (https://zpr.io/qHKENA3SJ8ML), by Telesh IV, Schubert H, Joehnk KD, Heerkloss R, Schumann R, Feike M, Schoor A, Skarlato SO. Sci Rep.
Books -
- Full House (https://zpr.io/pMQZfyPcRzD4), by Stephen Jay Gould
- Extinction: Bad Genes or Bad Luck? (https://zpr.io/pPVNugUKWpi4), by David M. Raup
- Rereading the Fossil Record: The Growth of Paleobiology as an Evolutionary Discipline (https://zpr.io/YBjJxuXjydPN), by David Sepkoski
- The Vital Question: Energy, Evolution, and the Origins of Complex Life (https://zpr.io/LzfueEqUWNHb), by Nick Lane
Life Itself: Its Origin and Nature (https://zpr.io/KPZf57eEVMBX), by Francis Crick
Signup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show.Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!
Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member ofThe Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.
Follow our show onInstagram,Twitter andFacebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailingradiolab@wnyc.org.
Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.Hi Radiolab listeners, we want to hear from you! Take this podcast survey and let us know how you feel about the show. It only takes about 20 minutes and your feedback will help us make our podcast better! There are no wrong answers, we want your honest takes. You can help out by taking the survey here (www.radiolab.org/survey).
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Antibiotic Apocalypse
Doctor and special correspondent Avir Mitra takes Executive Editor Soren Wheeler, plus a live studio audience, on a journey from the operating room to inside the body to the farm to the sewers and back again—searching for answers to an alarming threat to humanity’s existence as we know it: antibiotic resistance in bacteria.
This live show, performed in New York City and also in Little Rock, Arkansas, is part of a series we’re doing with Avir that we are calling “Viscera.” Each event is a conversation that takes the audience on a journey into a quirk or question or mystery inside of us, and gives them a visceral experience of the viscera within us. The previous installment of the series was called “The Elixir of Life.” (https://radiolab.org/podcast/the-elixir-of-life)
Special thanks to all of Little Rock Public Radio (especially Grace Zafasi and Jonathan Seaborn), Thomas Patterson, The Greene Space staff, CALS Ron Robinson Theater, Tom Philpott, Stephen Roach, Kate Shaw, Alex Wong, Maryn McKenna, and Kerri McClimen.
If you are a patients or a doctor, and you are interested in phage therapy, please contact IPATH@ucsd.edu
EPISODE CREDITS:
Reported by - Avir Mitra
Produced by - Jessica Yung
Sound design contributed by - Jeremy Bloom and Jessica Yung
Fact-checking by -Natalie MiddletonEPISODE CITATIONS:
Videos -
- Check out the video from the Viscera live show (and a bonus Q&A with Bruce Stewart-Brown and Steffanie Strathdee) on Radiolab’s YouTube (https://zpr.io/3BK9MqJYVKQA).
- A deep dive (https://zpr.io/WNQNfgiNvKeZ) on bacteriophages with Avir Mitra and Steffanie Strathdee, also on Radiolab’s Youtube..
Books -
- The Perfect Predator(https://theperfectpredator.com/) by Dr. Steffanie Strathdee’s telling of her battle against a killer superbug.
- Plucked (https://zpr.io/PudGMEuzgU9X)by Maryn Mckenna a detailed accounting of chicken farming’s practice of using antibiotics.
Signup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show.Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!
Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member ofThe Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.
Follow our show onInstagram,Twitter andFacebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailingradiolab@wnyc.org.
Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.Hi Radiolab listeners, we want to hear from you! Take this podcast survey and let us know how you feel about the show. It only takes about 20 minutes and your feedback will help us make our podcast better! There are no wrong answers, we want your honest takes. You can help out by taking the survey here (www.radiolab.org/survey).
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Staph Retreat
A strange brew that's hard to resist, even for a modern day microbe.
In the war on devilish microbes, our weapons are starting to fail us. The antibiotics we once wielded like miraculous flaming swords seem more like lukewarm butter knives. But in this episode, originally released in 2015, we follow an odd couple, of a sort, to a storied land of elves and dragons. There, they uncover a 1,000-year-old secret that makes us reconsider our most basic assumptions about human progress and wonder: what if the only way forward is backward?Special thanks to Steve Diggle, Professor Roberta Frank, Alexandra Reider and Justin Park (our Old English readers), Gene Murrow from Gotham Early Music Scene, Marcia Young for her performance on the medieval harp and Collin Monro of Tadcaster and the rest of the Barony of Iron Bog.
Can’t get enough of that sweet, sweet antibiotic resistance content? Then you’ll be over the moon about next week’s release. It’s the podcast cut of our most recent installment of our live show series called Viscera. This one features executive editor Soren Wheeler and Avir Mitra, and it’s all about how our millenia's-long war against bacteria came to a tipping point in this modern age.
Subscribe or follow our show on your favorite streaming platform and you’ll be the first to know when it drops.EPISODE CREDITS:
Reported by - Latif Nasser
Produced by - Matt Kielty and Soren WheelerEPISODE CITATIONS:
Articles -
Uncovering the multifaceted mechanism of action of a historical antimicrobial (https://zpr.io/mucw6Td6LBxT) by Harrison, F et al, 2026 bioRxv (PREPRINT). In this article Freya and her team describe the mechanisms under which Bald’s Remedy actually works.Signup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show.Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!
Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member ofThe Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.
Follow our show onInstagram,Twitter andFacebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailingradiolab@wnyc.org.
Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.Hi Radiolab listeners, we want to hear from you! Take this podcast survey and let us know how you feel about the show. It only takes about 20 minutes and your feedback will help us make our podcast better! There are no wrong answers, we want your honest takes. You can help out by taking the survey here (www.radiolab.org/survey).
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Return of the Flesh-Eaters
If a species is horrible enough, do we have the right to kill it forever?
Seventy years ago, a nightmare parasite feasted on the live flesh of warm-blooded creatures in North America: the screwworm. That is, until a young scientist named Edward F. Knipling discovered a crucial screwworm weakness and hatched a sweeping project to wipe them out. Knipling’s seemingly zany plan to spray screwworms out of planes all over the continent— with US taxpayer money— succeeded, becoming one of humanity’s biggest environmental interventions ever.
Today, screwworms have been gone so long that none of us in North America even remember them. But now, they’re coming back. And they’re forcing us to ask: in an era of climate change and rapid mass extinction— should we kill off a species on purpose?
Special thanks to James P. Collins, Max Scott, Amy Murillo, Daniel Griffin, Phil Kaufman, Katie Barnhill, Arthur Caplan, Ron Sandler, Yasha Rohwer, Aaron Keefe, Gwendolyn Bogard, Maria Sabate, Meredith Asbury, and Joanne Padrón Carney
EPISODE CREDITS:
Reported by - Sarah Qari
with help from - Latif Nasser
Produced by - Sarah Qari
Sound design contributed by - Sarah Qari
Fact-checking by - Emily KriegerEPISODE CITATIONS:
**The latest information on screwworm outbreaks and precautions:
screwworm.govVideos:
- Oral history interviews of Edward F. Knipling: here (https://zpr.io/njhMedFN5jsZ) and here (https://zpr.io/VQReQbfznCrq)
Podcasts:
- Here’s a Spotify playlist (https://zpr.io/PNMEM274G7vh) of all of our Golden Goose-inspired episodes!
- Sam Kean’s podcast The Disappearing Spoon– his episode about screwworms is called The Screwiest and Perhaps Most Original Idea of the 20th Century (https://zpr.io/UYf6dR2yG3eN)
- Our episode on CRISPR & gene drives (https://zpr.io/UYf6dR2yG3eN)
- New to Radiolab? Check out our Radiolab Starter Kit (https://zpr.io/QpPnrHAZVQLR) playlist of all-time favorite episodes!
Articles:
- Sarah Zhang’s latest piece in The Atlantic: American Milk Has Changed (https://zpr.io/xebbdq2MWV4L)
- Her most recent piece on screwworms: The ‘Man-Eater’ Screwworm Is Coming (https://zpr.io/ECmjCs7ScbS4)
- Her initial reporting on screwworms: America’s Never-Ending Battle Against Flesh-Eating Worms (https://zpr.io/PNMEM274G7vh)
- Gregory Kaebnick’s paper (https://zpr.io/yqNC3q5FbCcq) about screwworm eradication in Science
Archival materials:
- The USDA’s Screwworm Eradication Records (https://zpr.io/dY7zuVdGYKjf) contain lots of cool images and letters
Signup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show.Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!
Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member ofThe Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.
Follow our show onInstagram,Twitter andFacebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailingradiolab@wnyc.org.
Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.
Hi Radiolab listeners, we want to hear from you! Take this podcast survey and let us know how you feel about the show. It only takes about 20 minutes and your feedback will help us make our podcast better! There are no wrong answers, we want your honest takes. You can help out by taking the survey here (www.radiolab.org/survey).
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Snail Sex Tape
In this episode, we consider a creature we often don’t think much about—the snail. And not just snails, but their sex lives. Which, as it turns out, is epic. There is persuasion and subterfuge, spaghetti penises and co-copulation. And this very surprising habit—erm kink—of making tiny arrows (actually!) and stabbing each other with them. Known as a “love dart,” these limestone daggers aren’t just a strange trick of nature—they have a deep evolutionary purpose.
Special thanks to Menno Schilthuizen and Aaron Chase.
EPISODE CREDITS:
Hosted by - Molly Webster
Reported by - Molly Webster
Produced by - Mona Madgavkar, Annie McEwen, Molly Webster
Sound design contributed by - Mona Madgavkar, Annie McEwen
Fact-checking by - Diane A. Kelly
and Edited by - Alex NeasonEPISODE CITATIONS:
Videos -
A love dart being DARTED! (https://zpr.io/rYhLwXhaxQQP) – Molly has watched this video so many times
Articles -- Changes in the reproductive system of the snail Helix aspersa caused by mucus from the love dart. (https://zpr.io/xxjuCcTyiVJV) by Koene JM, Chase R. J Exp Biol.
- The snail's love-dart delivers mucus to increase paternity.By Chase R, Blanchard KC. Proc Biol Sci.
- A love-dart at the heart of sexual conflict in snails (https://zpr.io/X2ANHPaEg5sr) by Foote C
** This article has an image of eight different love darts, and it’s what Molly shows to Soren in the episode (this image is one of her favorite research finds!)
Books -
“Nature’s Nether Regions: What the Sex Lives of Bugs, Birds, and Beasts Tell Us About Evolution, Biodiversity, and Ourselves” (https://zpr.io/ktMvJbZciCdD) by evolutionary biologist Menno Schilthuizen.Signup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show.Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!
Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member ofThe Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.
Follow our show onInstagram,Twitter andFacebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailingradiolab@wnyc.org.
Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.
Hi Radiolab listeners, we want to hear from you! Take this podcast survey and let us know how you feel about the show. It only takes about 20 minutes and your feedback will help us make our podcast better! There are no wrong answers, we want your honest takes. You can help out by taking the survey here (www.radiolab.org/survey).
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Black Box
In this episode, first aired in 2014, we examine three very different kinds of black boxes—spaces where we know what’s going in, we know what’s coming out, but can’t see what happens in-between.
From the darkest parts of metamorphosis to a sixty-year-old secret among magicians, and the nature of consciousness itself, we shine some light on three questions. But for each, we contend with an answerless space, leaving just enough room for the mystery and magic, always wondering what’s inside the Black Box.
EPISODE CREDITS:
Reported by Tim Howard and Molly Webster
Produced by Tim Howard and Molly WebsterEPISODE CITATIONS:
Radio Show: ABC's Keep Them Guessing (https://tinyurl.com/9r9zmftr)
LATERAL CUTS:
Last year we shared a story on our feed about butterfly researcher Dr. Martha Weiss, and how she befriended a little boy on the other side of the world who wanted to do his own caterpillar memory study.Martha’s daughter Annie Rosenthal captured the whole adventure on tape and produced a gorgeous audio feature, “Caterpillar Roadshow,” which was first published in the audio magazine Signal Hill.
You can find it on our feed (https://zpr.io/xPdAYXFUMr4s)
–or on Signal Hill’s website. (https://zpr.io/a4bjPKeXJQWK)
Signup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show.Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!
Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member ofThe Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.
Follow our show onInstagram,Twitter andFacebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailingradiolab@wnyc.org.
Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.Hi Radiolab listeners, we want to hear from you! Take this podcast survey and let us know how you feel about the show. It only takes about 20 minutes and your feedback will help us make our podcast better! There are no wrong answers, we want your honest takes. You can help out by taking the survey here (www.radiolab.org/survey).
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Gray's Donation
Before he was even born, Sarah and Ross Gray knew that their son Thomas wouldn’t live long. But as they let go of him, they made a decision that reverberated through a world that they never bothered to think about. Years later, after a couple of awkward phone calls, they go on a quest and manage to meet the people and places for whom Thomas’ short life was an altogether different kind of gift. We originally made this story back in 2015, but we wanted to play it again because we love that it brings a view of science that is redemptive, tender, and unexpected.
Since we first released this episode, Sarah Gray wrote a book called A Life Everlasting (https://zpr.io/GVYisRaqe9d6), it’s a memoir about Thomas that dives into the world of organ donation and medical science. She’s also written a beautiful short story about shame called The Lacemaker Fairy Tale (https://zpr.io/Li5BMtfHmf92). And, right now she’s working on a script for a movie called Raincheck.
EPISODE CREDITS:
Reported by - Jad Abumrad
with help from - Latif Nasser
LATERAL CUTS -- The Cathedral (https://radiolab.org/podcast/cathedral)
- The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks (https://radiolab.org/podcast/the-immortal-life-of-henrietta-lacks)
Signup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show.Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!
Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member ofThe Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.
Follow our show onInstagram,Twitter andFacebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailingradiolab@wnyc.org.
Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.
Hi Radiolab listeners, we want to hear from you! Take this podcast survey and let us know how you feel about the show. It only takes about 20 minutes and your feedback will help us make our podcast better! There are no wrong answers, we want your honest takes. You can help out by taking the survey here (www.radiolab.org/survey).
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Time is Honey
In the early 2000s, Sunil Nakrani felt stuck.
Back then, websites crashed all the time. When Sunil noticed this, he decided he was going to fix the internet. But after nearly a year of studying the architecture of the web, he was no closer to an answer. In desperation, Sunil sent out a raft of cold emails to engineering professors. He hoped someone, anyone, could help him figure this out. Eventually, he learned that the internet could only be fixed if he paid attention to the humble honeybee.
This is the story of the Honeybee Algorithm: How tech used honeybees to build the internet as we know it.
Special thanks to John Bartholdi, John Vande Vate, Sammy Ramsey, James Marshall, Steve Strogatz, Duc Pham, and Heiko Hamann.
We found out about this story thanks to our friends at AAAS, who run the one and only Golden Goose Awards. The award goes to government funded science that sounds trivial or bizarre, but goes on to change the world.The Honeybee Algorithm won a Golden Goose Award back in 2016 (https://zpr.io/ePxaaYja6YF4). Thank you to our friends there: Erin Heath, Gwendolyn Bogard, Valeria Sabate, Joanne Padron Carney, and Meredith Asbury.
EPISODE CREDITS:
Reported by - Latif Nasser
with help from - Maria Paz Gutiérrez
Produced by - Maria Paz Gutiérrez, Annie McEwen and Pat Walters
and Edited by - Pat WaltersEPISODE CITATIONS:
Videos -
Books -
- The Wisdom of the Hive: The Social Physiology of Honeybee Colonies(https://www.hup.harvard.edu/books/9780674953765)byThomas D. Seeley (1995, Harvard University Press)
- Piping Hot Bees & Boisterous Buzz-Runners: 20 Mysteries of Honey Bee Behavior Solved (https://zpr.io/tNDqkw372Rhr) by Thomas D. Seeley
- And, Paths of Pollen(https://zpr.io/cqRPpAdGRwMi)by Stephen Humphrey. One of our former transcribers who we recently learned had hidden talents far beyond the invaluable work they did for us. This book is only tangentially related to the content in the episode, but super cool in its own right.
Sign up for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show.Signup (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!
Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member ofThe Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.
Follow our show onInstagram,Twitter andFacebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailingradiolab@wnyc.org.
Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.
Hi Radiolab listeners, we want to hear from you! Take this podcast survey and let us know how you feel about the show. It only takes about 20 minutes and your feedback will help us make our podcast better! There are no wrong answers, we want your honest takes. You can help out by taking the survey here (www.radiolab.org/survey).
-
Kleptotherms
In this episode, we break the thermometer and watch the mercury spill out as we discover that temperature is far stranger than it seems. We first ran this episode in 2021: Five stories that run the gamut from snakes to stars. We start out underwater, with a species of snake that has evolved a devious trick for keeping warm. Then we hear the tale of a young man whose seemingly simple method of warming up might be the very thing making him cold. And Senior Correspondent Molly Webster blows the lid off the idea that 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit is a sound marker of health.
EPISODE CREDITS:
Reported by - Lulu Miller and Molly Webster
Produced by - Becca Bressler, Lulu Miller and Molly Webster
with help from - Carin Leong
Fact-checking by - Emily Krieger
Sign up for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show.Signup (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member ofThe Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.
Follow our show onInstagram,Twitter andFacebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailingradiolab@wnyc.org.
Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.Hi Radiolab listeners, we want to hear from you! Take this podcast survey and let us know how you feel about the show. It only takes about 20 minutes and your feedback will help us make our podcast better! There are no wrong answers, we want your honest takes. You can help out by taking the survey here (www.radiolab.org/survey).
-
Song of the Cerebellum
One spring evening in 2024, a science journalist named Rachel Gross bombed at karaoke. The culprit was a bleed in a fist-sized clump of neurons tucked down in the back of her brain called the cerebellum. A couple weeks later, her doctors took a bit of it out, assuring her it was just helping her with motor coordination — she might be a bit clumsy for a while, but she’d still be herself. But afterwards, she didn't feel like herself. So she dove into the dusty basement of the brain (and brain science) to figure out why. What Rachel found was a burgeoning new frontier in neuroscience. We learn what singing Shakira on stage has to do with reaching for a cup of coffee — and how the surprising relationship between the two is making us rethink what we think about thinking.
Special thanks to Warzone Karaoke at Branded Saloon, Dr. Joanne Loewy and the Singing Together, Measure by Measure choir at theLouis Armstrong Center for Music and Medicine (http://musicandmedicine.org/) at Mount Sinai Union Square, Dag Spicer and the Computer History Museum, Désirée Lie, Mark Gross, Daniel A. Gross, Brittany Aguilar, and, of course, Shakira.
EPISODE CREDITS:
Reported by - Rachel Gross
Produced by - Sindhu Gnanasambandan
EPISODE CITATIONS:Articles -
- “Ignoring the cerebellum is hindering progress in neuroscience.” (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39934082/), by Wang et al, 2025
- “The cerebellum and cognition.” (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29997061/), by Schmahmann JD. Neurosci Lett. 2019
- “How did brains evolve?” (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11805823/), by Barton RA., Nature. 2002
Books -
- Vagina Obscura (https://www.rachelegross.com/book), by Rachel E. Gross
Sign up for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show.Signup (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!
Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member ofThe Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.
Follow our show onInstagram,Twitter andFacebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailingradiolab@wnyc.org.
Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation, Science Sandbox, a Simons Foundation Initiative, and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.
Hi Radiolab listeners, we want to hear from you! Take this podcast survey and let us know how you feel about the show. It only takes about 20 minutes and your feedback will help us make our podcast better! There are no wrong answers, we want your honest takes. You can help out by taking the survey here (www.radiolab.org/survey).
-
You and Me and Mr. Self-Esteem
Most of us spend some part of our lives feeling bad about ourselves and wanting to feel better. But this preoccupation is a surprisingly new one in the history of the world, and can largely be traced back to one man: a rumpled, convertible-driving California state representative named John Vasconcellos who helped spark a movement that took over schools, board rooms, and social-service offices across America in the 1990s. This week, we look at the rise and fall of the self-esteem movement and ask: is it possible to raise your self-esteem? And is trying to do so even a good idea?
Special thanks to big thank you to the University of California, Santa Barbara Library for use of audio material from their Humanistic Psychology Archives and to their staff for helping located so many audio recordings.
EPISODE CREDITS:
Reported by - Heather Radke and Matt Kielty
Produced by - Matt Kietly
Original music and sound design by - Jeremy S. Bloom and Matt Kielty
Flute performance and compositions by - Ben Batchelder
Voiceover work by - Dann Fink and David Gebel
Mixing help by - Jeremy S. Bloom
Fact-checking by - Anna Pujol-Mazzini and Angely Mercado
and Edited by - Pat WaltersEPISODE CITATIONS:
Articles -
- UCSB Humanistic Psychology Archive (https://zpr.io/HfVjUmvcVevE)
Books -
- Selfie: How We Became So Self-Obsessed and What It's Doing to Us (https://zpr.io/eGRyqz9zNQHu) by Will Storr. Counterpoint, 2018.
- A Liberating Vision (https://zpr.io/tJn7BR5m84fv) by Vasconcellos, John.Impact Publishers, Inc., 1979
- The Therapeutic State (https://zpr.io/tJn7BR5m84fv) by Nolan, James, Jr.NYU Press, 1998
Sing up for our newsletter. It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show.Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!
Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member ofThe Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.
Follow our show onInstagram,Twitter andFacebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailingradiolab@wnyc.org.
Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation, Science Sandbox, a Simons Foundation Initiative, and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.Hi Radiolab listeners, we want to hear from you! Take this podcast survey and let us know how you feel about the show. It only takes about 20 minutes and your feedback will help us make our podcast better! There are no wrong answers, we want your honest takes. You can help out by taking the survey here (www.radiolab.org/survey).
-
The Punchline
This episode, first aired in 2019, brings you the story of John Scott, the professional hockey player that every fan loved to hate. A tough guy. A brawler. A goon. But when an impish pundit named Puck Daddy called on fans to vote for Scott to play alongside the world’s greatest players in the NHL All-Star Game, Scott found himself facing off against fans, commentators, and the powers that be. Was this the realization of Scott’s childhood dreams? Or a nightmarish prank gone too far? Today on Radiolab, a goof on a goon turns into a parable of the agony and the ecstasy of the internet, and democracy in the age of Boaty McBoatface.
Special thanks to Larry Lynch and Morgan Springer.
Check out John Scott's "Dropping the Gloves"podcast (https://www.droppingthegloves.com/) and hisbook (https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/A-Guy-Like-Me/John-Scott/9781501159657) "A Guy Like Me".EPISODE CREDITS:
Reported by - Latif Nasser
Produced by - Matt KieltyOriginal music and sound design contributed by -
John Dryden, Thee Oh Sees, Weedeater and Bongzilla.Sign up for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show.Signup (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!
Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member ofThe Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.
Follow our show onInstagram,Twitter andFacebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailingradiolab@wnyc.org.
Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.Hi Radiolab listeners, we want to hear from you! Take this podcast survey and let us know how you feel about the show. It only takes about 20 minutes and your feedback will help us make our podcast better! There are no wrong answers, we want your honest takes. You can help out by taking the survey here (www.radiolab.org/survey).
-
Brain Balls
When neuroscientist Madeline Lancaster was a brand new postdoc, she accidentally used an expired protein gel in a lab experiment and noticed something weird. The stem cells she was trying to grow in a dish were self-assembling. The result? Madeline was the first person ever to grow what she called a “cerebral organoid,” a tiny, 3D version of a human brain the size of a peppercorn.
In about a decade, these mini human brain balls were everywhere. They were revealing bombshell secrets about how our brains develop in the womb, helping treat advanced cancer patients, being implanted into animals, even playing the video game Pong. But what are they? Are these brain balls capable of sensing, feeling, learning, being? Are they tiny, trapped humans? And if they were, how would we know?
Special thanks to Lynn Levy, Jason Yamada-Hanff, David Fajgenbaum, Andrew Verstein, Anne Hamilton, Christopher Mason, Madeline Mason-Moriarty, the team at the Boston Museum of Science, and Howard Fine, Stefano Cirigliano, and the team at Weill-Cornell.
EPISODE CREDITS:
Reported by - Latif Nasser
with help from - Mona Madgavkar
Produced by - Annie McEwen, Mona Madgavkar, and Pat Walters
with mixing help from - Jeremy Bloom
Fact-checking by - Natalie Middleton and Rebecca Rand
and Edited by - Alex Neason and Pat WaltersEPISODE CITATIONS:
Videos -
- “Growing Mini Brains to Discover What Makes Us Human,” Madeline Lancaster’s TEDxCERN Talk, Nov 2015 (https://zpr.io/6WP7xfA27auR)
- Brain cells playing Pong (https://zpr.io/pqgSqguJeAPK)
- Reuters report on CL1 computer launch in March 2025 (https://zpr.io/cdMf8Yjvayyd)
Articles -
- Madeline Lancaster: The accidental organoid – mini-brains as models for human brain development (https://zpr.io/nnwFwUwnm2p6), MRC Laboratory of Molecular Biology
- What We Can Learn From Brain Organoids (https://zpr.io/frUfsg4pxKsb), by Carl Zimmer. NYT, November 6, 2025
- Ethical Issues Related to Brain Organoid Research (https://zpr.io/qyiATHEhdnSa), by Insoo Hyun et al, Brain Research,2020
- Brain organoids get cancer, too, opening a new frontier in personalized medicine (https://zpr.io/nqMCQ) STAT Profile of Howard Fine and his lab’s glioblastoma research at Weill Cornell Medical Center:
- By re-creating neural pathway in dish, Stanford Medicine research may speed pain treatment (https://zpr.io/UnegZeQZfqn2) Stanford Medicine profile of Sergiu Pasca’s research on pain in organoids
- A brief history of organoids (https://zpr.io/waSbUCSrL9va) by Corrò et al, American Journal of Physiology - Cell Physiology,
Books -
Carl Zimmer Life’s Edge: The Search for What it Means to be Alive(https://carlzimmer.com/books/lifes-edge/)
Sign up for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show.Signup (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member ofThe Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.
Follow our show onInstagram,Twitter andFacebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailingradiolab@wnyc.org.
Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.Hi Radiolab listeners, we want to hear from you! Take this podcast survey and let us know how you feel about the show. It only takes about 20 minutes and your feedback will help us make our podcast better! There are no wrong answers, we want your honest takes. You can help out by taking the survey here (www.radiolab.org/survey).
-
Moon Trees
In 1971, a red-headed, tree-loving astronaut named Stu ‘Smokey’ Roosa was asked to take something to the moon with him. Of all things, he chose to take a canister of 500 tree seeds. After orbiting the moon 34 times, the seeds made it back to Earth. NASA decided to plant the seeds all across the country and then… everyone forgot about them. Until one day, a third grader from Indiana stumbled on a tree with a strange plaque: "Moon Tree." This discovery set off a cascading search for all the trees that visited the moon across the United States. Science writer, and our very own factchecker, Natalie Middleton (https://www.nataliemiddleton.org/) tells us the tale.
Read Lulu’s remembrance of Alice Wong for Transom.org: 13 questions I’ll never get to ask Alice Wong (https://transom.org/2026/13-questions-ill-never-get-to-ask-alice-wong/).
Check out Natalie’s map to find your nearest moon tree on our show page (https://radiolab.org/podcast/moon-trees)!
Help us hunt for more moon trees. If you know of an undocumented moon tree, contact Natalie at nataliemiddleton.org. Check out Natalie’s essay on Moon Trees (https://orionmagazine.org/article/moon-tree/) and Space Zinnias (https://orionmagazine.org/article/astronaut-scott-kelly-flower-experiment-space/) in Orion Magazine (https://orionmagazine.org/).
Visit NASA’s official Moon Tree Page (https://science.nasa.gov/resource/apollo-moon-trees/) for a list of all the Apollo 14 Moon Trees in the world.
To learn more about Stu Roosa or to learn more about acquiring your own half Moon Tree, check out the Moon Tree Foundation (https://www.moontreefoundation.com/), spearheaded by Stu’s daughter, Rosemary Roosa.
A reminder that Terrestrials also makes original music! You can find ‘Tangled in the Roots’ and all other music from the show here(https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab-kids/just-the-songs).
EPISODE CREDITS:Terrestrials was created by Lulu Miller with WNYC Studios. This episode was produced by Tanya Chawla and sound-designed by Joe Plourde. Our Executive Producer is Sarah Sandbach. Our team includes Alan Goffinski, Ana González and Mira Burt-Wintonick. Fact checking was by Diane Kelly.
Special thanks to Sumanth Prabhaker from Orion magazine, retired NASA Scientist Dr. Dave Williams, Joan Goble, Tre Corely and NASA scientist Dr. Marie Henderson.
Our advisors for this show were Ana Luz Porzecanski, Nicole Depalma, Liza Demby and Carly Ciarrocchi.
Support for Terrestrials also comes from the Simons Foundation, the Arthur Vining Davis Foundations, and the John Templeton Foundation.
Signup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show.Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!
Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member ofThe Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.
Follow our show onInstagram,Twitter andFacebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailingradiolab@wnyc.org.
Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.Hi Radiolab listeners, we want to hear from you! Take this podcast survey and let us know how you feel about the show. It only takes about 20 minutes and your feedback will help us make our podcast better! There are no wrong answers, we want your honest takes. You can help out by taking the survey here (www.radiolab.org/survey).
-
Fertility Cliff
As she -- and her friends — approached the age of 35, senior correspondent Molly Webster kept hearing a phrase over and over: “fertility cliff.” It was a short-hand term to describe what she was told would happen to her fertility after she turned 35 — that is, it would drop off. Suddenly, sharply, dramatically. And this was well before she was supposed to hit menopause. Intrigued, Molly decided to look into it — what was the truth behind this so-called cliff, and when, if so, would she topple?
This story first premiered in “Thirty Something,” a 2018 Radiolab live show that was part of,Gonads, (https://radiolab.org/series/radiolab-presents-gonads)a six-episode audio and live event series all about reproduction and the parts of us that make more of us. The live event was produced by Rachael Cusick and edited by Pat Walters.
Special thanks to epidemiologist Lauren Wise, at Boston University. Plus, Emily, Chloe, and Bianca. And of course, Jad Abumrad.
If you’re more of a visual person, here are the graphs we explain in the episode, we also include links to the corresponding papers in our Episode Citations Section, below!
LINK TO GRAPHS:
https://media.wnyc.org/i/1860/1046/c/80/2025/12/FERTILITY_AGE_GRAPHS_1-4.jpg
EPISODE CREDITS:
Reported by - Molly Webster
Produced by - Arianne Wack
Fact-checking by - Diane A. KellyEPISODE CITATIONS:
Audio:
- Gonads (https://radiolab.org/series/radiolab-presents-gonads/)
A six-part audio series on reproduction and the parts of us that make more of us - The Menopause Mystery (https://radiolab.org/podcast/the-menopause-mystery)
One of Radiolab’s most listened-to episodes of 2025!
Videos:
“Radiolab Presents: Thirty Something”
https://youtu.be/LOJVAaSwags?si=czCBraHf1JEqmAQiResearch Articles:
- Graph 1: Can assisted reproduction technology compensate for the natural decline in fertility with age? A model assessment(https://zpr.io/ft6dqdbkJnTd)
- Graph 2: Ovarian aging: mechanisms and clinical consequences(https://zpr.io/GrPLebynpvxV) , Brookmans, et al.
- BUT, the graph was borrowed and actually comes from this 1991 paper, Delaying childbearing: effect of age on fecundity and outcome of pregnancy” (https://zpr.io/whWg2UAZsb6h)
- BUT, the graph was borrowed and actually comes from this 1991 paper, Delaying childbearing: effect of age on fecundity and outcome of pregnancy” (https://zpr.io/whWg2UAZsb6h)
- Graph 3 and 4: Age and fecundability in a North American preconception cohort study, (https://zpr.io/Rmqry4Kd67hY) Wise et al; Dutch fertility research
Further reading:
Predicting Fertility, (https://zpr.io/YEdfiYT29rUh): Magazine article on Lauren Wise’s research,
Sign up for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show.Signup (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!
Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member ofThe Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.
Follow our show onInstagram,Twitter andFacebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailingradiolab@wnyc.org.
Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.Hi Radiolab listeners, we want to hear from you! Take this podcast survey and let us know how you feel about the show. It only takes about 20 minutes and your feedback will help us make our podcast better! There are no wrong answers, we want your honest takes. You can help out by taking the survey here (www.radiolab.org/survey).
- Gonads (https://radiolab.org/series/radiolab-presents-gonads/)
-
The Good Show
The standard view of evolution is that living things are shaped by cold-hearted competition. And there is no doubt that today's plants and animals carry the genetic legacy of ancestors who fought fiercely to survive and reproduce. But in this hour that we first broadcast back in 2010, we wonder whether there might also be a logic behind sharing, niceness, kindness... or even, self-sacrifice. Is altruism an aberration, or just an elaborate guise for sneaky self-interest? Do we really live in a selfish, dog-eat-dog world? Or has evolution carved out a hidden code that rewards genuine cooperation?
Sign up for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show.Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!
Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member ofThe Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.
Follow our show onInstagram,Twitter andFacebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailingradiolab@wnyc.org.
Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.Hi Radiolab listeners, we want to hear from you! Take this podcast survey and let us know how you feel about the show. It only takes about 20 minutes and your feedback will help us make our podcast better! There are no wrong answers, we want your honest takes. You can help out by taking the survey here (www.radiolab.org/survey).
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The Alien in the Room
It’s faster than a speeding bullet. It’s smarter than a polymath genius. It’s everywhere but it’s invisible. It’s artificial intelligence. But what actually is it?
Today we ask this simple question and explore why it’s so damn hard to answer.
Special thanks to Stephanie Yin and the New York Institute of Go for teaching us the game. Mark, Daria and Levon Hoover Brauner for helping bring NETtalk to life.
And a huge thank you to Grant Sanderson for his unending patience explaining the math of neural nets to us. To learn more about how these 'thinking machines' actually think, we highly recommend his wonderful youtube channel3Blue1Brown(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aircAruvnKk).
EPISODE CREDITS:
Reported by - Simon Adler
Produced by - Simon Adler
Original music from - Simon Adler
Sound design contributed by - Simon Adler
Fact-checking by - Anna Pujol-MazziniSign up for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show.Signup (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!
Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member ofThe Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.
Follow our show onInstagram,Twitter andFacebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailingradiolab@wnyc.org.
Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Gordon and Betty
Hi Radiolab listeners, we want to hear from you! Take this podcast survey and let us know how you feel about the show. It only takes about 20 minutes and your feedback will help us make our podcast better! There are no wrong answers, we want your honest takes. You can help out by taking the survey here (www.radiolab.org/survey).
-
Shell Game: Minimum Viable Company
A year ago we brought you a show called Shell Game where a journalist named Evan Ratliff made an AI copy of himself. Now on season 2 of the show, Evan’s using AI to do more than just mimic himself — he’s starting a company staffed entirely by AI agents, and making a podcast about the experience. The show is a smart, funny, and truly bizarre look at what AI can do—and what it can’t.
This week we bring you the first episode of Shell Game Season Two, Minimum Viable Company. You can sign up to get the rest of the Shell Game ad-free, and the Shell Game newsletter, at shellgame.co .
EPISODE CREDITS:
Shell Game
Hosted by Evan Ratliff,
Produced and edited by Sophie Bridges.
Shell Game’s Technical Advisor Matty Bohacek
Executive Produced by Samantha Henig, Kate Osborn and Mangesh Hattikudur at Kaleidoscope
and Katrina Norvell at IHeart Podcasts.
Radiolab portions
Hosted by Simon Adler
Produced by Mona Madgavkar.Sign up for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show.Signup (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!
Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member ofThe Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.
Follow our show onInstagram,Twitter andFacebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailingradiolab@wnyc.org.
Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.
Hi Radiolab listeners, we want to hear from you! Take this podcast survey and let us know how you feel about the show. It only takes about 20 minutes and your feedback will help us make our podcast better! There are no wrong answers, we want your honest takes. You can help out by taking the survey here (www.radiolab.org/survey).
-
Fela Kuti: Enter the Shrine
Our original host Jad Abumrad returns to share a new podcast series he’s just released. It’s all about Fela Kuti, a Nigerian musician who created a genre, then a movement, then tried to use his hypnotic beats to topple a military dictatorship. Jad tells us about the series and why he made it, and we play the episode that, for us at least, gets to the heart of the matter: How exactly does his music work? What actually happens to the people who hear it and how does it move them to action?
You can find Jad’s entire nine-part series, Fela Kuti: Fear No Man, on Apple or Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
EPISODE CREDITS:
Reported by - Jad Abumrad
Radiolab portions produced by - Sindhu GnanasambandanSign up for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show.Signup (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!
Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member ofThe Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.
Follow our show onInstagram,Twitter andFacebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailingradiolab@wnyc.org.
Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.
Hi Radiolab listeners, we want to hear from you! Take this podcast survey and let us know how you feel about the show. It only takes about 20 minutes and your feedback will help us make our podcast better! There are no wrong answers, we want your honest takes. You can help out by taking the survey here (www.radiolab.org/survey).
-
Our Common Nature: West Virginia Coal
Today on the show, we’re bringing you an episode from Our Common Nature (https://link.podtrac.com/v7mx144d), a new podcast series where cellist Yo-Yo Ma and host Ana González travel around the United States to meet people, make music and better understand how culture binds us to nature. The series features a few familiar voices, including Ana González (host) and Alan Goffinski (producer), from our kids podcast, Terrestrials (https://link.podtrac.com/vysacqn1).
About the episode:
West Virginia is defined by its beauty and its coal, two things that can work against each other. Yo-Yo Ma felt this as soon as stepped foot in its hills.This episode explores how music and poetry help process the emotions of a community besieged with disaster and held together by pride and duty. We travel down the Coal River with third-generation coal miner Chris Saunders, who tells us how coal has saved and threatened his life. Poet Crystal Good shares her poetry, which channels her rage and love. And musician and granddaughter of West Virginia coal miners, Kathy Mattea, explains the beauty of belting out your home state in a chorus. The end of the episode finds host Ana floating down the New River with help from a group of high schoolers and Yo-Yo Ma.Listen to the full series Our Common Nature (https://link.podtrac.com/v7mx144d).
Featuring music by Yo-Yo Ma, Dom Flemons, and Kathy Mattea and poetry by Crystal Good.
EPISODE CREDITS:
Radiolab Bits Produced - Anisa Vietze (Radiolab bits)Signup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show.Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!
Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member ofThe Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.
Follow our show onInstagram,Twitter andFacebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailingradiolab@wnyc.org.
Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.Hi Radiolab listeners, we want to hear from you! Take this podcast survey and let us know how you feel about the show. It only takes about 20 minutes and your feedback will help us make our podcast better! There are no wrong answers, we want your honest takes. You can help out by taking the survey here (www.radiolab.org/survey).
-
Quantum Refuge
Qasem Waleed is a 28-year-old physicist who has lived in Gaza his whole life. In 2024, he joined a chorus of Palestinians sharing videos and pictures and writing about the chaos and violence they were living through, as Israel’s military bombardment devastated their lives. But Qasem was trying to describe his reality through the lens of the most notoriously confusing and inscrutable field of science ever, quantum mechanics. We talked to him, from a cafe near the Al-Mawasi section of Gaza, to find out why. And over the course of several conversations, he told us how this reality-breaking corner of science has helped him survive. And how such unspeakable violence actually let him understand, in a visceral way, quantum mechanics’ most counter-intuitive ideas.
Special thanks to Katya Rogers, Karim Kattan, Allan Adams, Sarah Qari, Soren Wheeler, and Pat Walters
EPISODE CREDITS:
Reported by - Lulu Miller
Produced by - Jessica Yung
with mixing help from - Jeremy Bloom
Fact-checking by - Emily Krieger
and Edited by - Alex Neason
EPISODE CITATIONS:Videos -
- A Brief History of Quantum Mechanics with Sean Carroll, The Royal Institution (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hVmeOCJjOU)
- Introduction to Superposition, with MIT’s Allan Adams (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ3bPUKo5zc)
- The Quantum Wavefunction, Explained(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOI4DlWQ_1w)
Articles -
Read a selection of Qasem’s published essays about his life in Gaza and the quantum world:- I am stuck in a box like Schrodinger’s in Gaza (https://zpr.io/ALDVi9E5bRt8)
- Israel has turned Gaza’s summer into a weapon (https://zpr.io/YS4WK4hVQC5T)
- The Physics of Death in Gaza (https://zpr.io/hxsgxicVqPAd)
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Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member ofThe Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.
Follow our show onInstagram,Twitter andFacebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailingradiolab@wnyc.org.
Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.Hi Radiolab listeners, we want to hear from you! Take this podcast survey and let us know how you feel about the show. It only takes about 20 minutes and your feedback will help us make our podcast better! There are no wrong answers, we want your honest takes. You can help out by taking the survey here (www.radiolab.org/survey).
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The Wubi Effect
When we think of China today, we think of a technological superpower. From Huawei and 5G to TikTok and viral social media, China is stride for stride with the United States in the world of computing. However, China’s technological renaissance almost didn’t happen. And for one very basic reason: the Chinese language, with its 70,000 plus characters, couldn’t fit on a keyboard.
Today, we tell the story of Professor Wang Yongmin, a hard-headed computer programmer who solved this puzzle and laid the foundation for the China we know today.
Special thanks to Martin Howard. You can view his renowned collection of typewriters at:antiquetypewriters.com.
EPISODE CREDITS:
Reported by - Simon Adler
Produced by - Simon Adler
Sign up for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show.Signup (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!
Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member ofThe Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.
Follow our show onInstagram,Twitter andFacebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailingradiolab@wnyc.org.
Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.Hi Radiolab listeners, we want to hear from you! Take this podcast survey and let us know how you feel about the show. It only takes about 20 minutes and your feedback will help us make our podcast better! There are no wrong answers, we want your honest takes. You can help out by taking the survey here (www.radiolab.org/survey).
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The Glow Below
A call to oceanographer Edie Widder about a fish with a very odd immune system quickly becomes something else: a dive into the deep sea, into a world of brilliant light. But down there, the light doesn’t behave like light -- it sparkles and glows, but also drips, squirts, and dribbles. Today, find out how creatures make the light and how they use it, from hunting and hiding to maybe even … talking. And hear about a series of mysterious moments where Edie goes from studying the creatures to becoming one of them.
EPISODE CREDITS:
Hosted by - Molly Webster
Reported by - Molly Webster
Produced by - Maria Paz Gutierrez
with help from - Molly Webster
Fact-checking by - Diane A. Kelly
LATERAL CUTS (Other Radiolab episodes you may like):
Octomom - https://radiolab.org/podcast/octomom
The Darkest Dark - https://radiolab.org/podcast/the-darkest-darkEPISODE CITATIONS:
Documentary -
Coming soon, there’ll be a new doc about Edie’s life and work studying bioluminescence in deep sea creatures. According to Edie, “A Life Illuminated”, contains some of the best deep sea bioluminescence footage ever recorded. It’s from our friends at Sandbox Films, and director Tasha Van Zandt.
https://www.sandboxfilms.org/films/a-life-illuminated/
Books -
Edie Widder wrote a memoir! Go read, “Below the Edge of Darkness: A Memoir of Exploring Light and Life in the Deep Sea”.https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/564185/below-the-edge-of-darkness-by-edith-widder-phd/
Videos -
It’s not in the episode, but a few years back, Edie’s fame reached new heights when she captured footage of a never-before-seen Giant Squid … here’s the story, and video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krDdv9KLmuM
Articles -
A look at some glowing shrimps.
https://zpr.io/3jyHWi7VFBw5
A photo gallery of different types of deep sea glow, from different types of deep sea creatures, including one of counterillumination, which Edie talks about in the episode.
https://zpr.io/hdFFsArGjhau
Sign up for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show.Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!
Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member ofThe Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.
Follow our show onInstagram,Twitter andFacebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailingradiolab@wnyc.org.
Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.
Hi Radiolab listeners, we want to hear from you! Take this podcast survey and let us know how you feel about the show. It only takes about 20 minutes and your feedback will help us make our podcast better! There are no wrong answers, we want your honest takes. You can help out by taking the survey here (www.radiolab.org/survey).
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What Up Holmes?
Love it or hate it, the freedom to say obnoxious and subversive things is the quintessence of what makes America America. But our say-almost-anything approach to free speech is actually relatively recent, and you can trace it back to one guy: a Supreme Court justice named Oliver Wendell Holmes. Even weirder, you can trace it back to one seemingly ordinary eight-month period in Holmes’s life when he seems to have done a logical U-turn on what should be say-able. Why he changed his mind during those eight months is one of the greatest mysteries in the history of the Supreme Court. (Spoiler: the answer involves anarchists, a house of truth, and a cry for help from a dear friend.) Join us in an episode we originally released in 2021, as we investigate why he changed his mind, how that made the country change its mind, and whether it’s now time to change our minds again.
Special thanks to Jenny Lawton, Soren Shade, Kelsey Padgett, Mahyad Tousi and Soroush Vosughi.
LATERAL CUTS:
Content Warning
Facebook Supreme Court
The Trust Engineers
EPISODE CREDITS:
Reported by - Latif Nasser
Produced by - Sarah Qari
with help from - Anisa VietzeSignup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show.Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!
Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member ofThe Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.
Follow our show onInstagram,Twitter andFacebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailingradiolab@wnyc.org.
Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.Hi Radiolab listeners, we want to hear from you! Take this podcast survey and let us know how you feel about the show. It only takes about 20 minutes and your feedback will help us make our podcast better! There are no wrong answers, we want your honest takes. You can help out by taking the survey here (www.radiolab.org/survey).
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Content Warning
Over the past five years TikTok has radically changed the online world. But trust us when we say, it’s not how you’d expect.
Today we continue our yearslong exploration of what you can and can’t post online. We look at how Facebook’s approach to free speech has evolved since Trump’s victory. How TikTok upended everything we see. And what all this means for the future of our political and digital lives.
Special thanks to Kate Klonick
EPISODE CREDITS:Reported by - Simon Adler
Produced by - Simon AdlerOriginal music from - Simon Adler
with mixing help from - Jeremy Bloome
Fact-checking by - Anna Pujol-Mazzini
Lateral Cuts:
The Trust Engineers
Facebook’s Supreme CourtSignup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show.Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!
Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member ofThe Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.
Follow our show onInstagram,Twitter andFacebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailingradiolab@wnyc.org.
Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.Hi Radiolab listeners, we want to hear from you! Take this podcast survey and let us know how you feel about the show. It only takes about 20 minutes and your feedback will help us make our podcast better! There are no wrong answers, we want your honest takes. You can help out by taking the survey here (www.radiolab.org/survey).
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Creation Story
Ella al-Shamahi is one part Charles Darwin, one part Indiana Jones. She braves war zones and pirate-infested waters to collect fossils from prehistoric caves, fossils that help us understand the origin of our species. Her recent hit BBC / PBS series Human follows her around the globe trying to piece together the unlikely story of how early humans conquered the world. But Ella’s own origins as an evolutionary biologist are equally unlikely. She sits down with us and tells us a story she has rarely shared publicly, about how she came to believe in evolution, and how much that belief cost her.
Special thanks to Misha Euceph, Khalil Andani, and Hamza Syed.
EPISODE CREDITS:
Reported by - Latif Nasser
Produced by - Jessica Yung and Pat Walters
with help from - Sarah Qari
Fact-checking by - Diane Kelly
and Edited by - Pat WaltersEPISODE CITATIONS:
Videos -
“Human” (https://www.bbcearth.com/shows/human), Ella’s show on the BBC and PBS
Signup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show.Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!
Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member ofThe Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.
Follow our show onInstagram,Twitter andFacebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailingradiolab@wnyc.org.
Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.
Hi Radiolab listeners, we want to hear from you! Take this podcast survey and let us know how you feel about the show. It only takes about 20 minutes and your feedback will help us make our podcast better! There are no wrong answers, we want your honest takes. You can help out by taking the survey here (www.radiolab.org/survey).
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Adoptive Couple v. Baby Girl
This is the story of a three-year-old girl and the highest court in the land. The Supreme Court case Adoptive Couple v. Baby Girl is a legal battle that has entangled a biological father, a heart-broken couple, and the tragic history of Native American children taken from their families. We originally released this story back in 2013, when that girl’s fate was still in the balance of various legal decisions. We thought now was a good time to bring the story back, because the Act at the center of the story is still being questioned.
When then-producer Tim Howard first read about this case, it struck him as a sad but seemingly straightforward custody dispute. But, as he started talking to lawyers and historians and the families involved in the case, it became clear that it was much more than that. Because Adoptive Couple v. Baby Girl challenges parts of the 1978 Indian Child Welfare Act, this case puts one little girl at the center of a storm of legal intricacies, Native American tribal culture, and heart-wrenching personal stakes.
LATERAL CUTS:
What Up Holmes?
The GatekeeperEPISODE CREDITS:
Reported by - Tim Howard
Produced by - Tim HowardEPISODE CITATIONS (so many):
Background and Reporting from a range of different perspectives
- "Couple forced to give up daughter"
An introductory article by Allyson Bird, for the Charleston, SC Post and Courier - "Supreme Court Takes on Indian Child Welfare Act in Baby Veronica Case"
A report for Indian Country Today by Suzette Brewer, who has also written a two-part series on the case. - "Supreme Court hears Indian child custody case"
Tulsa World article by Michael Overall which includes Dusten Brown's account of his break-up with Veronica's mother, and his understanding about his custodial rights. Plus photos of Dusten, Veronica, and Dusten's wife Robin in their Oklahoma home_._ - Randi Kaye's report for CNN on the background of the case, and interviews with Melanie and Matt Capobianco: "Video: Adoption custody battle for Veronica"
- Nina Totenberg’s report for NPR: "Adoption Case Brings Rare Family Law Dispute To High Court"
- Reporting by NPR's Laura Sullivan and Amy Walters on current ICWA violations in South Dakota.
- Dr. Phil's coverage: "Adoption Controversy: Battle over Baby Veronica"
Analysis and Editorials
- Op-ed by Veronica's birth mom, Christy Maldonado, in the Washington Post: "Baby Veronica belongs with her adoptive parents"
- Colorlines report "The Cherokee Nation’s Baby Girl Goes on Trial:"
- Americans remain dangerously uninformed about the basics of tribal sovereignty, and what it means for the relationship between the United States and Native tribes and nations.
- The Weekly Standard's Ethan Epstein argues that ICWA is "being used to tear [families] apart]: "Mistreating Native American Children"
- Andrew Cohen considers the trickier legal aspects of the case for the Atlantic in "Indian Affairs, Adoption, and Race: The Baby Veronica Case Comes to Washington:"
- A little girl is at the heart of a big case at the Supreme Court next week, a racially-tinged fight over Native American rights and state custody laws.
- Marcia Zug's breakdown of the case (Marica Zug is an associate professor of law at the University of South Carolina School of Law who she specializes in family and American Indian law) "Doing What’s Best for the Tribe" for Slate:
- Two-year-old “Baby Veronica” was ripped from the only home she’s known. The court made the right decision.
- Marcia Zug for the Michigan Law Review: "Adoptive Couple v. Baby Girl: Two-and-a-Half WAys To Destroy Indian Law"
- From Walter Olson, a senior fellow at the Cato Institute’s Center for Constitutional Studies: "The Constitutional Flaws of the Indian Child Welfare Act"
- Rapid City Journal columnist David Rooks poses a set of tough questions about ICWA: "ROOKS: Questions unasked, unanswered"
- Editorial coverage from The New York Times:
- "A Wrenching Adoption Case"
- "Adoptive Parents vs. Tribal Rights"
Contemporary, Historic, and Legal Source Materials
- Adoptive Couple v. Baby Girl on the SCOTUS (Supreme Court of the United States) Blog
- Audio from the oral arguments in the Supreme Court
- Official website for ICWA (the federal Indian Child Welfare Act)
- 1974 Hearings Before the Subcommittee on Indian Affairs "on problems that American Indian families face in raising their children and how these problems are affected by federal action or inaction." PDF
- The National Indian Child Welfare Association
- The First Nations Repatriation Institute, which works with and does advocacy for adoptees
Signup for our newsletter!! It includes short essays, recommendations, and details about other ways to interact with the show. Sign up (https://radiolab.org/newsletter)!
Radiolab is supported by listeners like you. Support Radiolab by becoming a member of The Lab (https://members.radiolab.org/) today.
Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @radiolab, and share your thoughts with us by emailing radiolab@wnyc.org.
Leadership support for Radiolab’s science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.
Hi Radiolab listeners, we want to hear from you! Take this podcast survey and let us know how you feel about the show. It only takes about 20 minutes and your feedback will help us make our podcast better! There are no wrong answers, we want your honest takes. You can help out by taking the survey here (www.radiolab.org/survey).
- "Couple forced to give up daughter"